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danceRdisco Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 22:29 Post subject: BBC2 Monday Tuesday Arena 9pm Bob Dylan |
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John Mc
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 1398
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Hew
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 529 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 19:03 Post subject: |
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Part one of the dylan documentary is on here tonight and i am well excited. _________________ Martin O'Neill's Claret And Blue Army |
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mixedcasesspaces
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 574 Location: In the bin, wriggling around with the apple cores
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bravecaptain
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 859
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 15:33 Post subject: |
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i thought the opposite.
mx |
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John Mc
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 1398
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 16:01 Post subject: |
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He was much more chirpy and upbeat than I thought he'd be. I particularly like the footage of the people coming out of his concert arguing amongst themselves, "I didn't come here to see a pop band" etc... |
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bravecaptain
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 859
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 16:36 Post subject: |
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i liked "Bob Dylan was a bastard in the second half"
you normally only say that about referees.
ace
mx |
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AdamW
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 197 Location: Chester, UK
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 17:36 Post subject: |
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Bobblehead looked and sounded ten years' younger than I expected.
Engrossing viewing; but there were some glaring holes, mostly down to the ineptitude of the interviewer... why wasn't Bob asked why he felt the need to be disingenuous about his background and upbringing? How did he feel on the "Judas!" tour... I don't believe that the little conversation in the back of the car, "Why do they spend so much on tickets just to come and boo me?" gave us a true insight into his feelings... Why he had such a cavalier attitude to his friends, and - especially - their belongings? Why - if he was uncomfortable with being the 'spokesman of his generation', he actively played up to the role? They're just a few that I would have liked to ask him.
I know that the questions would have been heavily vetted; but, because of that, it's a far from perfect documentary, and you would think that Scorcese would have rigorous standards of his own to aim for, rather than merely sacrificing them to kow-tow to Dylan.
Of course, the whole point about Bob Dylan [apart from the music, which is akin to saying write an essay about why air is vital to life on earth without mentioning oxygen] is that he is as masterful at obscuring the facts and truth of his life as he is the meaning of his songs. It's what makes him so endlessly fascinating. He wasn't about to blow any of that smoke away just for the sake of Martin Scorcese and an Arena documentary.
If Neolithic man had left a little note in Amesbury saying,
"Hello people of the future,
Please don't let your dogs crap in the middle of our rounders field."
A few hundred thousand people a year wouldn't bother going to visit Stonehenge.
I can't wait for tonight's edition, though. _________________ The Musical Mystery Tour,
every Sunday night 10pm - 1am, BBC Radio Wales
http://adamwalton.co.uk
http://myspace.com/adamthomaswalton
Last edited by AdamW on Tue Sep 27, 2005 23:09; edited 1 time in total |
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bravecaptain
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 859
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 19:38 Post subject: |
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i would disagree to say that i don't believe he ever 'actively played up to the role' of spokesman of his generation. From the start he refuted, ignored or mocked the very suggestion.
I don't think that the bits from 1966 shouldn't be taken as part of the narrative. If this had been done purely chronologically then the '66 bits would have taken up over an hour, i reckon' which would have left the whole joint looking a bit lopsided.
if i had nicked my mates' records then i wouldn't want some guy asking me about it on telly either.
anyway, i cant get bbc2 so i gotta go to dickie jim's to watch it.
avanti!
mx |
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Dubya - T
Joined: 27 Aug 2002 Posts: 559 Location: Floatin' down the greasy grass river
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 22:52 Post subject: |
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Why would neolithic man leaving a note in Aylesbury lead to people not visiting Stonehenge?
And since when did Bob Dylan play rounders?
_________________ We would like to announce that due to cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off..... |
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Guest
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 23:06 Post subject: |
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bravecaptain wrote: |
i would disagree to say that i don't believe he ever 'actively played up to the role' of spokesman of his generation. From the start he refuted, ignored or mocked the very suggestion. |
Very true.
But his early songs used religious language and imagery and dealt with the biggest of all themes. It was obvious - especially to a man of Dylan's intelligence - that he would be elevated, stuck on a dais, and analysed to the acutest degree. He mightn't have actively played up the role of spokesperson for a generation; but many of his songs certainly invited that kind of an epithet. Throughout his career, he has enjoyed opening the door just a little bit to let his fans get a tantalising glimpse of who he is, or what his music is, before slamming it in their faces. He's the greatest example in popular music of the 'treat em mean to keep em keen' philosophy.
So, yes, to my mind, he did - at one point - actively play up the role of spokesperson for his generation. He just stopped doing it as soon as people started to call him it.
I would love to know how Dylan was with Woody Guthrie in that asylum. Is the journey that he made there that different from the nutters and freaks who visited him when he lived in Woodstock.
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I don't think that the bits from 1966 shouldn't be taken as part of the narrative. If this had been done purely chronologically then the '66 bits would have taken up over an hour, i reckon' which would have left the whole joint looking a bit lopsided. |
A lot of my questions were answered by tonight's instalment. I was assuming that tonight we would have moved on, post Highway 61, post Blonde on Blonde - post the accident... but it looks like Scorcese - like you, bc - thinks that all of Dylan's best material came pre July '66.
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if i had nicked my mates' records then i wouldn't want some guy asking me about it on telly either. |
I don't give a fuck how special someone is. I don't care how talented they are, and how honoured I should feel to know / have known them: if they come over my house and nick my copy of 16 Lovers Lane or Music Has the Right to Children [current favourites] I'm going to be absolute bastard furious if I don't get them back. And I will stalk them until the end of their days - or until HMV have got those two albums in their Uber Sale to End All Sales Sale for £2.99.
I suppose that to get to the position Dylan did you have to be ruthless enough to use the people who are willing to let themselves be used.
A lot of what I've been watching over the last couple of nights got me thinking about akira the don: youth, insight, talent, and that ability to strip away all of the bullshit to focus in, and communicate, all of the erm... bullshit.
I look forward to AtD's 2008 tour, where he's ditched the loops and the hip hop in favour of Chris De Burgh-style, FM-friendly rawk ballads, and the crowd streaming out of the CIA are moaning about how he's "CRAP!" and "SOLD OUT!"
AtD has, perhaps, got the talent that Dylan had. All of that nowse, the hip hop foundation [the folk music of the last thirty years and the biggest earner, genre-wise, in the entire music industry] and that hunger to communicate. I just worry that AtD is too sensitive, gives too much of a shit, if that's possible, for the shitstorm that may be about to engulf him.
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anyway, i cant get bbc2 so i gotta go to dickie jim's to watch it. |
If I were you, I'd ask for a chunk of your license fee back. BBC 2 is the only thing the BBC do that's worth the money spent on it.
The wink's for my editor, should she read this.
Do they do posters????
mx[/quote] |
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AdamW
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 197 Location: Chester, UK
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 23:12 Post subject: |
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Dubya - T wrote: |
Why would neolithic man leaving a note in Aylesbury lead to people not visiting Stonehenge?
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Aylesbury / Amesbury / grass / grarse...
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And since when did Bob Dylan play rounders?
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You're right, Dubya! ANOTHER question that should have been asked.
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_________________ The Musical Mystery Tour,
every Sunday night 10pm - 1am, BBC Radio Wales
http://adamwalton.co.uk
http://myspace.com/adamthomaswalton |
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bravecaptain
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 859
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 09:59 Post subject: |
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i thought the end was shit x |
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stegger
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 44 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 21:12 Post subject: |
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I found all the other music most enjoyable. The jug band stuff completely freaked me out, as did Odetta who I had never heard of before. To my ears it sounded like strange and wildly experimental music.
And what happened to Dylan's voice in 1966? It went wrong. What was that all about? _________________ never ever bloody anything ever |
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Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 17:13 Post subject: |
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I thought it was really good, i really liked the folky stuff when he was playing to the civil rights movement with bob seegar, i wasnt to impressed with the electric stuff though.
Odetta was really cool, id never heard of her either, it reminded me of nick cave fro some reason really gothic and dark |
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