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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

getting 4th place and houllier quitting in the summer is pretty much the ideal scenario, especially if he announces he's leaving before the end of the season so he gets a decent send-off at the last game.

i really can't see it though. he comes across as way too stubborn to just walk away.

i used to like him, and a couple of years ago i was certain that he was the man to lead us back to the top. the last two seasons of crap football, bad results and endless excuses and bullshit have done my head in though.

he really has eroded all the goodwill and respect his earlier achievements created. go now!
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought last season was a blip and we'd get back on track by signing Kewell but its not worked out like that.

I think the players have lost respect for him due to his insistence on continuing to play Biscan, Diao, Smicer and Traore when its clear they aren't suited to the Premiership. We signed Biscan as a 'creative' midfielder and he's definitely not that so Houllier is trying to turn him into a rugged defender. It almost enough to make you nostaligic for the days of Nicky Tanner.
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Plank



Joined: 22 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil Babb. Bjorn Tor Kvarme. Torben Piechnik. Now add Biscan.
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

bc wrote:
I think that winning a mickey mouse cup and coming ninth in the league is hardly an improvement on what we have now.


Yes, but this was with LEICESTER, who only one or two years previously hadn't even been in the Premiership.........................

I can't blame any Liverpool fan for having massive ambitions of who the next Manager should be though. I was a Liverpool fan up to the age of 13, and even now it pains me to see the way they play under Houllier

Kinky
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe your expectations are just too high.
Here are some statistics from earlier seasons, only from Premier League matches though. When did Houllier come to Liverpool?

02/03 - pos 5th / pts 64 / gs 61 - ga 41
01/02 - pos 2nd / pts 80 / gs 67 - ga 30
00/01 - pos 3rd / pts 69 / gs 71 - ga 39
99/00 - pos 4th / pts 67 / gs 51 - ga 30
98/99 - pos 7th / pts 64 / gs 68 - ga 49

pos = position, pts = points, gs = goals scored, ga = goals against

I think that Houllier is losing the touch at Liverpool, he probably should resign but sacking him wouldn't be a good solution. The problem with Houllier is that his managing style is too 'conservative' - he can't make any big changes. What happened to the squad rotation system?
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mc wrote:
I thought last season was a blip and we'd get back on track by signing Kewell but its not worked out like that.

I think the players have lost respect for him due to his insistence on continuing to play Biscan, Diao, Smicer and Traore when its clear they aren't suited to the Premiership. We signed Biscan as a 'creative' midfielder and he's definitely not that so Houllier is trying to turn him into a rugged defender. It almost enough to make you nostaligic for the days of Nicky Tanner.


despite my loss of respect for the manager i still feel a bit protective of the players.

biscan will do a decent job a centre-back for 89 minutes of most games, but he always seems to have a least one laspe of concentration. at the start of the season he was getting away with it mostly, but he's been punished too many times lately. we definitely need new centre-backs; henchoz and hyypia were great but they've no pace and if we ever want to see attacking football we've got to get defenders who can push up without being completely exposed for pace on the break.

i think diao has done ok as defensive midfield cover for hamann. a bit reckless in tackling sometimes, but his main problems have been playing out of position in defence - eg bolton in the league cup where he gave away the free-kick and penalty.

i think smicer's a good player (when he's fit - ie a couple of times a season!). we always seem to play good passing football when he's in the team. bit lightweight, but kewell can't tackle to save his life and doesn't get slagged off for it.

traore might be a decent centre back one day if his confidence isn't destroyed by playing leftback too often. similar concentration problems to biscan, i suppose.

when you go a third of a season without a win, it hink calling it a "blip" is a bit unrealistic, and the kind of rubbish gh has been guilty of. we also reached a "plateau" last season after previous success - a plateau that sloped dramatically downwards!

i was prepared to give him the benefit of another season, to show that last season was a one-off, but enough is enough and has been for a few months now.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've won the European Cup 4 times! We've won the league 18 times, our expectations should be ridiculously high. I think the problem is that expectations are too low, we're happy to get 4th place and we're happy to win the Worthless Cup if we beat Man U in the process. We shouldn't be pleased with grinding out a draw at Leicester because its keeps us on track to get that all important 4th place.
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy BOO wrote:
Maybe your expectations are just too high.


maybe. but rightly or wrongly success at liverpool is measured in league championships and european cups. houllier himself said that we would win these trophies whilst he was manager.

there's been no progress overall from the time him joined as joint manager in the summer of 98, after we finished 4th the previous season, to now. we look a million miles away from winning the league - the gap to arsenal is 28 points. 2 years ago it was 7 points at the end of the season. in that time they've got better and we've got worse.

the club doesn't have a history of sacking managers, and hopefully it won't come to that but if it needs to it should.
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bc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't matter what went before, Tommy. We are the least creative, the least imaginative team in the premiership. If, after the latest disaster, Houllier came on the box and blamed the players it wouldnt be so bad, if we were fighting hard and losing but we could sense that they were giving it their all then that wouldn't be so bad. It's the pathetic, cringeworthy, excuses that we are insulted with week in, week out. I think that the Leicester team kinky is going on about was comparable in terms of quality with the reds today (obviously excluding Gerard and, on his day, Owen). We've even go an older crapper version of Emile Heskey!

How can you support a team until you're thirteen?

M xx
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're right about that. There has been no progress for two seasons.
Things should go onwards and upwards, forwards not backwards - just like someone wise said in the last millennium. Rolling Eyes
Maybe it's time for a new manager then... but the big question is, who could that be?

In fact Houllier should be sacked only because of the fact that he never gave a real chance for Jari Litmanen, who used to be one of the best players in Liverpool when he was there (in my opinion). Wink
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

bc wrote:
How can you support a team until you're thirteen?



Heheh. I realised one morning that I'd never been within 60 miles of Liverpool and had only started supporting them because as young as i can remember they were always top of the league. A similar reason to why most people now support Manchester United.

I went to see them at Bramall Lane the first match of the season that Sheffield United were promoted to the top flight (about 1989 I think), and when Deano scored I found myself leaping around in the air. and now I'm waffling Wink

that Kinky fella
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 13:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

bc wrote:
It doesn't matter what went before, Tommy. We are the least creative, the least imaginative team in the premiership. If, after the latest disaster, Houllier came on the box and blamed the players it wouldnt be so bad, if we were fighting hard and losing but we could sense that they were giving it their all then that wouldn't be so bad. It's the pathetic, cringeworthy, excuses that we are insulted with week in, week out. I think that the Leicester team kinky is going on about was comparable in terms of quality with the reds today (obviously excluding Gerard and, on his day, Owen). We've even go an older crapper version of Emile Heskey!


Well, I support Barnsley, so my expectations have never been very high! I would be happy if Barnsley finished in the top six in Division Two, Liverpool fans are only happy if they win some trophy every season. I suppose that's just how things are, but you must realise that times have changed as well - you're probably still daydreaming of the huge success in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. In fact I used to lie at myself that Barnsley is a big club (compared to other Division Two clubs) - just because we played one season in the Premier League years ago. But just like things change to worse, they also change to better one day. And hey, at least Liverpool have the best football song ever (You'll Never Walk Alone). They played it at the Oakwell when Barnsley got relegated to Division Two (I was there)and had all those huge financial problems and it was so fucking touching and beautiful to hear everyone singing it.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 13:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smicer looks great playing for Czech Republic and so he's obviously a decent player but he's too lightweight for the Premiership. Not just in terms of making tackles but also taking them. Whenever he's challenged for the ball he falls over whereas Kewell is strong with the ball.

Diaos passing is awful for an International player although I agree that he's been played out of position. And Traore's distribution is similarly awful. Although when he just has to defend he looks good, I thought he was our best player against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

Part of the problem is that no-one has broken through from the youth team in the past few years. I thought Osemebor (spelling?) looked decent in the couple of matches he played and so I was amazed that we loaned him out to Bolton.
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 14:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mc wrote:
Kewell is strong with the ball..

tell that to yeovil and southampton Rolling Eyes

John Mc wrote:
Part of the problem is that no-one has broken through from the youth team in the past few years. I thought Osemebor (spelling?) looked decent in the couple of matches he played and so I was amazed that we loaned him out to Bolton.


yeah, it's hard to believe no-one has made the breakthrough since stevie g. steven wright looked a bit raw, but he couldn't have done worse than xavier. john welsh is meant to be pretty good, and again would seem a reasonable alternative to diao as back-up for hamann (think he's injured at the moment, though). john otsemobor (think that's the right spelling...) looked great going forward, but maybe a bit dodgy defensively. he's got time on his side to work on that, and given that we've no full back cover at the moment the decsion to loan him out, and to bolton who theoretically were challengers for the 4th place "holy grail" was none too clever.

i guess if another owen or gerrard emerged they'd make it, but houllier seems determined to pick his signings ahead of anyone coming through. whether that's more bloody-mindedness or due to a lack of quality is hrard to judge when none of the young lads are given a decent chance.
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 22:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Life is for living my friend, that is all that's important."
    - Kinkster, 1st of September 2005


Very Happy
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