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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 19:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

this deal's fucked up. at worst it will line moores' pockets, bringing no benefits to the club, if he's just selling his shares. at best it will generate more millions for houllier to waste on underachieving wasters.

either way, to sell a third of the club to a country (are the people in thailand really going to be happy if it's PUBLIC money that's used in the deal?!) with an abysmal human rights record is hard to justify.

people were up in arms about the proposed deal to buy lee bowyer a couple of years ago, but the fans i've seen interviewed on the news (probably not a reprensentative sample) don't seem fussed about this.

success at this price can't be worth having. in a black-and-white world, maybe i should give up my season ticket over this. but there'll be some other sucker who'll buy it, so the club wouldn't care, and on a selfish level it would leave too big a void in my life.

there was a time (a very long time ago) when i was proud of almost everything about the club: history, fans, players, manager etc, but i'm struggling to find much at all to be proud about now.

the following is from an article called "the power and the glory" from the "through the wind & rain" fanzine, by steve kelly. idealistic? maybe. a positive target to aim for? definitely.


I’ll give you my blueprint for the Reds’ future, and it’ll knock all those "glory hunter" accusations for six. Let’s have a maximum wage, dependent on bonuses for high league positions, long cup runs and European qualification. Let’s have a transfer ceiling. Let’s have U-17, U-19 and the Reserve sides trained and brainwashed to pass the ball quickly, to try the audacious and the heroic. To believe in a style of all-out attacking play that stimulates the brain and replenishes the soul. Let’s have a huge price cut in season ticket prices, an all-red kit to be proud of and tell TV to vastly reduce their intrusions into the game and make Saturday 3 o’clock our regular moment of worship once more. Try treating the fans, not like consumers but as partners, as allies, as fellow soldiers in the battle for football supremacy.

And if that leaves us continually fighting relegation or even puts us in the Nationwide, then so be it. Let’s see who stands where. Because I know for a fact that if my club stood for all of these things then I would be unquestioningly loyal for life. Would you? But if they want to screw us out of every penny: if they want to pay obscene wages and transfer fees: if they want to build their soulless plastic bowl in the park and even (God forbid) share it with the paupers: if they don’t give a fuck what Sky do to our fixtures and couldn’t care less about the inconvenience it causes us: if they want to take Reebok’s cash and trot our heroes out in clown outfits: if they want to employ a manager who is the very last word in pragmatic, soul-destroying ‘football’ (all recent improvement aside). In short, if THEY want to play the game everyone else is playing, then they have to play by the rules. They have to deliver, they have to WIN. And if they don’t, they have to move aside and make way for someone who can. The players, Houllier, Parry, Moores – the whole greedy, grasping bunch of them. Don’t make whining speeches about "unreasonable expectations". They are borne out of our history, carved out by the greatest of men who never flinched when they were asked to deliver more than even we thought possible.

United fought their battles, took endless amounts of stick for their monstrous egos and monumental self-importance – and have come through it all to dominate the English game, by fair means or foul.

What are WE going to do?
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 07:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Morgan is on the radio with his counter offer. He wants to underwrite shares ie whichever shares are not taken up by Moores etc he will buy them. He wants to make more shares available to fans. Not sure what this means to be honest but if he has dropped the nonsense about ground sharing then I'm behind him.

Rogan Taylor, a professor at Liverpool Uni and a man who I've admired for years was on the radio earlier. He said why doesn't everyone grow up and realise that no billionaire is completely clean. I find this incredible, putting football above basic human rights. Tosser, I'm going to find his address and mail him an eyefull.

Jesus fucking christ I hate John Kettley.

Sorry, didn't sleep too well last night.

mx
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 07:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Morgan's offer is worth 73million quid. x
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 08:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the Morgan press conference on the TV this morning. He came across well and said he just wants a seat on the board, would let Moores remain as chairman and although he'd look at all available options he'd prefer Liverpool to have there own ground and had been misquoted in the past.

But he did say that the priority for the new money was to invest in players. I'm a bit wary of this given our past track record with big money signing recently. If we piss away this money on Diouf, Heskey, Diao style signings then we'll be in big trouble and will have trouble raising funds in the future.
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bc
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 09:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

True but I don't think Houllier would last very long if he did get on the board. Then maybe we would get a manager who knows his Smicer from his elbow. Good to hear about the groundsharing though.

He's given Moores seven days to decide. I'm sure that Moores and Parry etc would feel safer with the Thai deal, it depends on whether Liverpool fans can register their opposition to the Thai deal with enough force of conviction. Even those unpeturbed by the human rights issue, let's face it they are probably the majority, would rather a local boy invest than the money coming from abroad..

mx
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 09:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think lots of people would be perturbed by the Human Rights issue if it was properly explained to them but I doubt that Rick Parry is likely to bring it up press conferences announcing the deal. Even aside from the morality issues the deal looks dodgy. Initially it was said that the Prime Minister would be paying for it out of his own money but now it appears its going to be coming out of Thai tax payers money. Its like Tony Blair announcing he's going to buy a stake in the New York Yankees for the good of Britain. Plus theres been talk of Liverpool signing a Thai player and having him play in the Premiership at some point in the future for marketing reasons.

Morgan was definitely playing up the "local boy made good" image and as his option will raise more money for the club I think most supporters would be behind him. To be honest I don't really know much about Morgan or Moores for that matter. I've always thought we were a decently run club although my friends who support other clubs reckon Liverpool have become complacent over the past few years and need a big change.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

The official England song for Euro 2004 is a new version of "Altogether Now" by the best and most influential band ever to come out of Liverpool - The Farm.
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mc wrote:
The official England song for Euro 2004 is a new version of "Altogether Now" by the best and most influential band ever to come out of Liverpool - The Farm.


I'd have preferred All Together Now by the more obscure Liverpool band, The Beatles
Wink
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Tommy Tynans Lovechild



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 854
Location: People's Republic Of BS4 (Though always PL2 4Ever)

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 10:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

PLANK....
BIG CONGRATULATIONS TO TORQUAY for gaining a fantastic automatic promotion last weekend! Really chuffed and well deserved for Rosenior who has put together a quality footballing side, well deserved for Bateson who (i think) has made Torquay a role model football club and well done to to all the Gulls fans. Met many top Torquay lads at France 98 and was out with one last weekend too. Got a great chance on staying in Div 2 this time and i really hope yer do.

That Liverpool thing...

Good posts. I used to like Rogan Taylor, and the FSA was a massive thing for those of us who were going 2 footie before the premiersh*te. However the more I hear from him now the more he really saddens me, his positions seems to have changed and the comment about "no billionaire is clean" is absolutely appalling. I hope LFC don't touch the Thai PMs cash, its not my place as its not my team but as a footie lover and AI member I really wouldn't want to see it happen for all the reasons stated above.

Question though, as a fan of a local club (for local people Very Happy i guess) I've often wondered what it must feel like to support a club who's been hijakced from people all the country and world over - I saw Liverpool play Man U about 4 seasons ago at Anfield. Man U won but the saddest thing for me was that so few of the Liverpool fans I was sat with really cared. Sure there were some proper scouse lads well passionate for it, showing all the emotions that i do when i see PAFC but so many seemed to be there just for the day out. It seemed so dilluted and so un Liverpudlian.

I got a mate from Salford who is Man U through and through but he gave up his season ticket (that he'd held for over 20 years) 'cos he couldn't hack the daytripping majority that he said now populates OT these days. I think its as big a problem for the game as the Sky money - its all pushing prices n wages up and taking it away from the normal football people.

It would piss me off if PAFC suddenly got populated by fans who supported us purely 'cos we won stuff, not 'cos we represented our part of england. I love PAFC 'cos i go with my mates and everyone there has roots with the region, its a real football passion. So does this piss of any of you Liverpool fans out there or aren't you bothered?

One of the worst fights i ever saw at football was a load of Scouse lads from Kenny doing over a load of liverpool fans from nottingham, all they kept saying was "you should be supporting fucking forest or county". I also met loads of Arsenal fans protesting against the bond scheme who gave up 'cos (in their words) "too many people from the home counties come now and they can afford to pay for one". And i'm bloomin' sure thats the reason its now know as the library now! Anyway rant over, but your views would be welcome!
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 13:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football is entertainment for the spectator at the end of the day, so anyone can be a fan of anyone they like. No one expects someone to only like the bands that are form near where they live, and nevermind all that - more importantly, if a team can field non-locals, its supporters can hardly moan about there being non-local fans. Cake and eat it, and all that.

There were three / four Republic Of Ireland regulars in the team when I became a fan! (earliest full match memory: 1988 Cup final)

Anyway, as a Dubliner, Liverpool is very nearly my local (professional) club Wink

And not forgetting, Liverpool FC was founded by a Northern Irishman, just like Glasgow Celtic FC was founded by two Irish priests...
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 20:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy Tynans Lovechild wrote:

I used to like Rogan Taylor, and the FSA was a massive thing for those of us who were going 2 footie before the premiersh*te. However the more I hear from him now the more he really saddens me, his positions seems to have changed and the comment about "no billionaire is clean" is absolutely appalling.


the rogan taylor quote. i haven't seen it in context, so presumably my interpretation that you wouldn't want any billionaire buying your club isn't the way he meant it. i read about how abramovich made his billions exploiting the sell-off of russian industries following the collapse of communism last week - not impressive.

the "out of town" fans issue has been an area of controversy for years at anfield. i think most people accept that just because fans aren't from liverpool doesn't make them any less passionate about the club. some people travel hundreds of miles to every home game. i wouldn't say they care any less about the club...

there is an apathy among large parts of the crowd at anfield at too many games. however, that applies to scousers as much as everyone else. for the last couple of seasons, i'd say it was due to the dross that's been served up on the pitch. before that, i don't know, maybe the fact that we've fallen short of expectations for too long.

i've honestly no idea what it's like to be a fan of a club that you don't expect to win every game and to be challenging for trophies every year. i'm not sure whether this expectation makes liverpool fans arrogant and hard to please, or whether the size of the club, its history, the crowds we get etc make the fans' expectations fair, and the underachievement harder to take.

obviously we do have an element of "support" who are there for a day out and don't care as much as others, and don't support the team in the same way. part of me wants the football "bubble" to burst so that the only people going to games are the ones that care. but the price of that could be clubs going out of business if attendances drop everywhere.

sorry, i'm rambling. so i'd just like to say a big "fuck off" to all the people who've so wittily and originally been singing "champions league you're having a laugh" all season (especially yeovil) and bid the rest of you a pleasant evening.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 09:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liverpool got 4th place, not great but a month ago I didn't even think we'd get that. Looks like Heskeys going to sign for Birmingham this week. I'll be a bit disappointed to see him go. Although he's been inconsistent for us I always thought that he'd come good for us eventually. However I suppose that for £11 million you should expect more than 5 good performances a season. Not sure what to expect from next season, its quite possible that we could get Real Madrid, Inter or Juventus in the qualifying rounds of the Champions League which would not be good. We've got to be pushing for the title next year or a least still be in with a chance by November.
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3066
Location: here, there, and everywhere

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 09:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

To reply to some of the older messages (by Martin and Dave and John):

So has the Thai PM already bought 30% of the club or is it just a rumour? That sounds quite difficult to believe... could be a (very much) belated April fool of very bad taste or something.
If the deal is still on, Liverpool will be hated by many in the future. Usually I try not to care about the things that happen outside the football ground, but this is different. It's almost criminal to accept that kind of money.

I hope that the Liverpool board makes the right decision, but for some reason I think that they don't really care. It's just the money that matters nowadays, which is quite sad actually.

There's so much dirty business around football, but I don't think that the beautiful game itself is going to die. When you enter the gates of your favourite football ground, you kind of forget all the financial and business related things and only concentrate on the football. Well, that's what I do at least. The state of football in England is pretty bad at the moment, that's right, a lot of traditional English clubs are dying because of huge financial problems. Bradford, Leeds, Notts County, Barnsley, Sheffield Wednesday, Gillingham, etc etc... I lived in the fear (when Barnsley were in administration) for more than a year, that was depressing time but now the future looks better, I suppose. Peter Ridsdale (the former Leeds chairman, now in Barnsley) may not be an angel but it's wrong that everyone blames only him for what happened in Leeds - there were many other members of the board who made bad decisions too, in fact Ridsdale voted 'no' for some of the biggest player purchases. I blame the British media, the most twisted media in the world. Fucking tossers.

I'll stop watching football the day when there are commercial breaks during the matches and advertisements on the grass. (in the ice hockey style)
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 10:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liverpool are in talks with the Thai Prime Minister about him buying 30% of the club for about £60 million. I think the deal would have gone through now if Morgans bid hadn't come in. The Thai Prime minister (pictured below) claims to be a life long Liverpool fan but says that he won't increase his bid and will buy into another Premiership team if Liverpool turn him down.

I don't think you can blame the media for footballs problems, in most instances they just report on whats going on (apart from when Sky start messing around with kick off times etc.) Its the clubs faults for wasting the money they've been given.

I wouldn't mind breaks in play for adverts if they also allowed the fighting which goes on in Ice Hockey.


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bc
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 09:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, the Thai Prime minister is saying that Liverpool FC have agreed to his offer. If it goes ahead i will renounce my support for the team I have followed and loved for nearly thirty years. This won't mean a fuck to them of course, I'm not a shareholder and no longer own my season tickets. At least Richard Cable, the sports minister has got off his arse and come out against the deal although its's probably worth noting that his objection is not rooted in any human rights issue but some vague 'local community' garbage.

liverpool have always been very vocal about their dignity and local pride but as soon as they have a chance to prove it they drop their knickers and straddle the big money dick. Fuck 'em. (Unless of course they don't do the deal).

Emile Heskey signed for Birmingham this morning, good luck to him.

I watched Sunderland and Crystal palace last night with my mate Mark smashed on Amazon mushies I bought from camden market. Top match. One thing tho', why does everyone get excited about Cardiff? 'AND CRYSTAL PALACE ARE HEADED FOR CARDIFF!!!' I'm headed for Cardiff and I'm miserable as sin.

Why is sin miserable? Whenever I find myself sinning I'm usually happy as Larry.


Who the fuck is larry?

Mx
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