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Dave w.
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840
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 Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 22:00 Post subject: |
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| Kinkster wrote: |
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I truly would be saying Heskey doesn't deserve to be in the squad even if England had won. By this, I mean not even in Portugal, never mind actually getting time on the pitch. The man has maybe done 2/3 useful things for England in a 5 year career, Ian Wright was given less of a chance despite being a much better player. |
as heskey's left liverpool, i suppose i can stop defending him, but old habits die hard...
i always feel he's a bit of a scapegoat, especially for england. he'll get stick for giving away the free-kick, but beckham won't for missing the penalty.
he must have scored (a couple) more than 2 or 3 goals for england, but maybe goals aren't useful these days. last world cup, off the top of my head, he scored a goal against denmark and set up owen's goal v brazil. he has played well in games, but the players who score the goals (usually owen, beckham, rooney recently) are the only ones remembered.
don't think the comparison with ian wright is fair. wright was an out and out goalscorer, who (as far as i can remember) didn't do much else. heskey tracks back and works hard, and plays as more of a target man. also wright was probably at his peak during a period when england had the likes of lineker and beardsley initially, and later shearer, sheringham etc who all did well. fowler, who must be one of the best players i've ever seen, also had little chance at that time.
the competition now isn't anything like the same. who was left out? beattie? smith? (can't actually remember who else
is
in the squad). there's hardly an excess of quality english strikers at the moment.
heskey should be a great player. if you compiled a video of his best moments, he's got it all: quick, good finisher (some great chips and spectacular volleys), good in the air, strong, hard-working. it's hard to say why he hasn't done better more consistently. partly lack of self-belief, not helped by being played out of position too often, i suppose.
oh well, not my problem anymore... |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 22:30 Post subject: |
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DE
NMA
RK
0 - 0
IT
A
LY
Just what I expected really. Boring boring Italy, they didn't even get the lucky goal I predicted that they would. I actually saw a little bits of the match every now and then at work, but I don't think that I missed anything really... A friend of mine who saw the match said that Denmark should have won, just because Italy were shite. And Totti should have been sent off for his "idiotic flying-kick-to-knee stunt". Can't say I'm very surprised... *sigh*
SW
ED
EN
5 - 0
BU
LGAR
IA
1-0 Ljungberg - 32 min.
2-0 Larsson - 57 min.
3-0 Larsson - 58 min.
4-0 Ibrahimovic - 78 min. (pen.)
5-0 Allbäck - 90 min.
I don't think that 5-0 was a fair result actually, Sweden were a bit lucky and Bulgaria even seemed to better during the first half. Maybe their playing style was too tiring though because Bulgaria were absolutely awful on the second half. Sweden played well, but the match didn't end 5-0 because they were superb. The first goal could have been an own goal so I'm not 100% sure about the scorer. Larsson's both goals, especially the first one was quite magic. And Edman's cross was fantastic, even better skill than Larsson's perfectly timed diving header. Sweden got a penalty kick when Ljungberg was brought down in the area (in my opinion he dived though, shouldn't have been a penalty) and Ibrahimovich managed to score from the spot, even though he's not a very good penalty taker. I somehow managed to miss Allbäck's fifth goal, I just saw how the ball floated into the back of the net, I even missed the replays then when I was talking to someone at the same time.
Not a very good match, but I hope that Denmark and Sweden both get to the quarter finals. Italy and Bulgaria don't deserve it in my opinion.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 22:42 Post subject: |
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Haha! Check this out ...
Training with the Italian team
It's a little mpg video file (2.5 MB). An advertisement of The Guardian, but still... It's
so
funny! And
so
true! 
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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John Mc
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1399
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:07 Post subject: |
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I'd definitely have Heskey in the squad. His goalscoring record at club level is better than Alan Smiths and he's less likely to get sent off. He's better than James Beattie and Defoe does the same sort of thing as Vassell and Owen so there wouldn't be much point in taking all of them along.
Things are looking a bit bleak for Liverpool right now, the new manager still hasn't been confirmed, the Thai deal is rumoured to be off and Morgan has withdrawn his offer of a cash injection and most worrying of all there are reports that Steven Gerrard wants to leave the club. It would be awful if he left but I don't be believe he's irreplaceable. People said that about Rush when he left for Juventus but we spent the money we got from his sale well and ended up with a better team. I suppose we were in a much stronger position in those days though. |
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Dave w.
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 19:18 Post subject: |
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| John Mc wrote: |
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Things are looking a bit bleak for Liverpool right now, the new manager still hasn't been confirmed, the Thai deal is rumoured to be off and Morgan has withdrawn his offer of a cash injection and most worrying of all there are reports that Steven Gerrard wants to leave the club. It would be awful if he left but I don't be believe he's irreplaceable. People said that about Rush when he left for Juventus but we spent the money we got from his sale well and ended up with a better team. I suppose we were in a much stronger position in those days though. |
the 500th post on the football thread (unless someone beats me to it). truly an honour. 
i don't see the collapse of the thai deal as bleak. i've been praying for that to happen. not sure it has collapsed; there's a story on teletext about a big music & enterntainment company in thailand heading a consortium to help buy the stake.
morgan has only withdrawn his offer before there seems no chance of david moores accepting it. i'm sure, given he's such a fan, he could be persuaded to put in a new bid if there was some chance of it being successful.
i don't think there's anyone who could do what steven gerrard did for us last season. he single-handedly carried the team for most of the time. it was easier to replace rush because we had a half-decent team to fit new players into, plus we had a year's notice of him leaving. i don't believe gerrard will leave, but if he does, next season really will be bleak.  |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 22:29 Post subject: |
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Congratulations Dave for the 500th post on the Football Thread!
CZEC
H REP
UBLIC
2 - 1
LA
TV
IA
0-1 Verpakovskis - 45min.
1-1 Baros - 73min.
2-1 Heinz - 85min.
I didn't see the game because of work again, but I saw a little summary of it just a while ago. Looks like Latvia battled bravely, but the final score was quite fair and Czech Republic deserved to win. It would have been absolutely great to see Latvia win or even get one point though, that's just what Euro 2004 needs, but even qualifying for the competition was some kind of a miracle for them.
GE
RMA
NY
1 -1
HO
LLA
ND
1-0 Frings - 30min.
1-1 van Nistelrooy - 81min.
I came back home earlier from work today just because I wanted to see the match, and I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in the end. Germany played like the always do, quite defending and not too many risks, but I think that the new generation of Germany is a bit more positive than the previous one. Holland weren't good today and it was boring to watch their long ball passing. "Brazilian style of play, beautiful attacking football" - bollocks!
Germany's goal was a bit lucky, but not undeserved. Thorsten Frings's free kick from wide was meant to be a cross, but it didn't find anyone and went past the Holland defense and German attack and even Edwin van der Sar (Dutch goalkeeper) into the net when everyone was just looking at it. Phillip Cocu could have kicked the ball away perhaps, but I think that he was a bit surprised there and realised the whole thing too late.
Before that Holland had had some average chances to score but after Germany's goal, there was not much to see anymore. The end of the first half was boring and so was the beginning of the second half. However, Dick Advocaat made some good substitutions and brought on Marc Overmars for Boudewijn Zenden who had been quite poor on the left wing. Overmars caused a lot of trouble with his pace. The positive surprise of Germany was Sebastian Schweinsteiger who played his second international match, he also caused some terror in the Dutch end.
On the 81st minute, van Nistelrooy, who hadn't done anything before that, got an excellent cross from right from Bouma... van Nistelrooy was closely marked by a German defender but he still somehow managed to score with a strange backheel kick when diving (?!). Very good timing and a nice goal really. Holland were slightly controlling the game after that until the final whistle, but 1-1 sounds like a fair result.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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John M
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 23:21 Post subject: |
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| Dave w. wrote: |
i don't see the collapse of the thai deal as bleak. i've been praying for that to happen. not sure it has collapsed; there's a story on teletext about a big music & enterntainment company in thailand heading a consortium to help buy the stake.
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I read about that deal but couldn't make out whether it was a totally new consortium or just the Thai Prime Minister finding another way to buy the club now that it looks like his plan for a lottery to fund it won't be allowed. It wasn't Shinawatra not buying the club that concerned me, it would be brilliant if he didn't, rather it was the lack of a back up plan if it doesn't happen. However I suppose the board must have another plan and they're not likely to announce it to the world.
I didn't think there was any chance of Gerrard leaving up until this weekend but the stories in the papers seemed quite certain and not just the usual " big player + big transfer fee + Chelsea = eye catching headline" stuff. But I've just read another website which says its nonsense so god knows whats going to happen.
Apart from the Sweden game I think the European Championships have been a bit disappointing so far. Its probably because all no one wants to lose their first games so teams have been a bit cagey. In the next round of matches there's the possibility of teams being knocked out so it should liven up. |
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Hew
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 529
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 03:10 Post subject: |
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i watched the germany holland match. German goal was a bit shit but to be fair they deserved it at half time. Van Nistelroys goal was pure class. What a finish.
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Dave w.
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 21:53 Post subject: |
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| John M wrote: |
I read about that deal but couldn't make out whether it was a totally new consortium or just the Thai Prime Minister finding another way to buy the club now that it looks like his plan for a lottery to fund it won't be allowed. It wasn't Shinawatra not buying the club that concerned me, it would be brilliant if he didn't, rather it was the lack of a back up plan if it doesn't happen. However I suppose the board must have another plan and they're not likely to announce it to the world.
I didn't think there was any chance of Gerrard leaving up until this weekend but the stories in the papers seemed quite certain and not just the usual " big player + big transfer fee + Chelsea = eye catching headline" stuff. But I've just read another website which says its nonsense so god knows whats going to happen.
Apart from the Sweden game I think the European Championships have been a bit disappointing so far. Its probably because all no one wants to lose their first games so teams have been a bit cagey. In the next round of matches there's the possibility of teams being knocked out so it should liven up. |
i'm not quite sure what's going on with the thai deal. it sounded as though the new consortium was to replace the government bid, but one of the companies involved is the family-owned telecommunications company of the prime minister.
whoever's behind it, i don't think the deal really adds up. if we get £60m-ish, i've read that £20m is going to existing shareholders, so only £40m is available to buy players or help with the new stadium. obviously it's a lot of money on the face of it, but in terms of making us able to compete financially with chelsea and utd it's nothing. we can never hope to compete with them financially without a billionaire prepared to bankroll the club, so i'd rather not go down that route at all, certianly not if it means selling the soul of the club at the expense of any sense of morality.
what was in the papers to make is so likely that gerrard is leaving? all i saw was that he wanted curbishley as manager rather than benitez. and, with due respect to alan curbishley, i can't see him leaving over that given that he signed a new long deal a few months ago while houllier was still in charge and thre team was failing. now that benitez has arrived, with a good record, i can't see gerrard going anywhere, certainly not this summer.
most of the euro 2004 games have been vaguely interesting, but there hasn't really been a great game yet, and there have been a couple of really bad ones. hopefullyit will improve... |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 00:32 Post subject: |
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GR
EE
CE
1 - 1
S
PAI
N
0-1 Morientes - 28 min.
1-1 Charisteas - 66 min.
Once again, I missed this match, but I heard that Greece were quite lucky.
I don't mind though, Greece got my sympathies in the first match against Portugal that they deserved to win in my opinion - I hope that they get through to the quarter finals!
RU
SS
IA
0 - 2
POR
TU
GAL
0-1 Maniche - 7 min.
0-2 Rui Costa - 89 min.
Ovchinnikov (RUS) sent off - 45 min.
Quite a boring match in my opinion, but I suppose that Portugal got what they deserved in the end. Both sides were poor, Portugal just were less poor this time. Russians were very defensive most of the time and Portugal just couldn't break through, their attacking play was awful.
Portugal controlled the ball on the first half, but they just couldn't create any goal scoring chances. I felt sorry for the Russian goalkeeper Ovchinnikov who really didn't deserve the red card in my opinion. I can understand the referee's decision somehow though, remember that they don't get to see video replays during the match! Still, after seeing the replay about five times, I'm not sure if he really touched the ball outside the penalty area with his hand... Maybe he did, but he still didn't deserve the red card in my opinion, because he stopped the ball with his feet, then accidentally touched the ball with his right hand... maybe.
Russians brought Malafeev who had only played 2 caps before that, but I think he played a good game. Portugal lost the control a bit in the beginning of the second half and Russia actually managed to create a couple of decent chances, but with one player sent off, they got tired too soon. Portugal gained the control again and the match was over when Rui Costa put the ball behind Malafeev and into back of the net from Cristiano Ronaldo's excellent pass.
So, Russia is out now, with Greece and Spain leading the Group A with 4 points. Portugal now has 1 point and Russia still have 0.
Bye bye Russia!
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
Last edited by Tommy BOO on Thu Jun 17, 2004 01:08; edited 1 time in total |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 01:00 Post subject: |
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Other Euro 2004 'news'...
Byebye Francesco?
Francesco Totti has been found guilty of spitting on Denmark's Christian Poulsen during the Italy Vs Denmark match on Monday. UEFA will now make the decision what kind of a penalty Totti will get. It can be anything between a fine and a three-match ban... or then nothing.
What an idiot, hopefully I won't have to see him anymore in this tournament. Spitting on someone's face is such a coward and rude thing to do, hopefully he gets a long ban. I can't stand that Totti primadonna anyway.
England fans causing trouble (again)
Well, this really isn't a big surprise... More than 40 England fans have already been arrested in Portugal, and now an unconfirmed rumour says that UEFA are considering of punishing England because of their fans' behaviour.
I've been wondering if it's actually true that England fans are any worse than all the others. I know that they take football (too) very seriously, but maybe the media just makes the thing look much bigger than it actually is.
Of course there are already some idiots who only want to cause trouble when there's a big crowd somewhere, but there's much more crowd violence in Italy and Spain, but everyone always talks about English hooligans.
Maybe it's the cheap Portuguese beer that we should all blame, but if a handful of people are having a drunken brawl, isn't it a little bit of over-reacting if the Portuguese special riot police goes in and starts to bash people over the head with their batons? The hooligan problem in England isn't that bad anymore because the police forces there know how to police the situation properly... Unfortunately their Portuguese colleagues don't seem to have an idea!
I'm not trying to defend those hooligans here, I'm just wondering if it's all just some anti-England propaganda. Those hooligans that really cause trouble and damage property and other people, deserve everything that they get. They should also get a very long ban from all the international matches and their own national league games, in my opinion.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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John Mc
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1399
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 08:36 Post subject: |
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| Dave w. wrote: |
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what was in the papers to make is so likely that gerrard is leaving? |
One of the papers at the weekend said that Gerrard had already put in a verbal transfer request which had been turned down by the Board but he was going to put forward a written request after Euro 2004. And most of the rest of them had stories linking him to Chelsea. It seems unlikely given that he's recently signed that new deal but when the Ferdinand and Alan Smith to Man U stories were first in the papers I thought they were ridiculous but they turned out to be true. I think he'll stay for a season to see how Benitez gets on, he's only 24 and I don't think he'll struggle to get by on the money he's being paid at Liverpool. And if we've not improved in 12 months time then I don't think anyone could object to him leaving then. Apart from me.
I don't think anyone expected Greece to be the first team through to the next round of Euro 2004. They didn't look great yesterday but Spain didn't take their chances. So that means it likely that if England finish second in the group they'll play Greece in the quarter finals of the competition which would allow TV companies plenty of opportunity to show Beckhams free kick against them in the World Cup qualifiers 24 hours a day in the run up to the game. I enjoyed the Portugal game last night, they played some good football. Russia just didn't look up for it at all though. |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 22:40 Post subject: |
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EN
GLA
ND
3 - 0
SWIT
ZER
LAND
1-0 Rooney - 23 min.
2-0 Stiel - 76 min (o.g.)
3-0 Gerrard - 82 min.
Haas (SUI) sent off - 60 min.
Boring football and although England deserved to win, 3-0 was still quite unfair. I'm still not impressed at all.
CR
O
A
T
IA
2 - 2
FR
AN
CE
0-1 Tudor - 23 min (o.g.)
1-1 Rapaic - 48 min (pen)
2-1 Prso - 52 min.
2-2 Trezeguet - 64 min.
Not much happened in the first half really, just some boring defensive football once again. Tudor deflected Zidane's free kick into own goal which was his first big blunder in tonight's match.
But, the second half of this match was probably the best football in the tournament so far. Croatia got an early penalty when Mikael Silvestre brought down Rosso inside the penalty box - Rapaic shot the ball into the lower right corner of the goal past diving Barthez who almost got it.
Four minutes later, Dado Prso got a long pass from the midfield into the penalty box - he took it down very well, dipped the ball
above
and past Silvestre... Marcel Desailly tried to clear it but he mis-kicked and Prso shot the ball with lots of power into the roof of the goal. Barthez didn't have a chance. Quite a lucky goal actually, but so was the next one...
Somewhere in the middle Igor Tudor, the 'star player' of Croatia had also got a yellow card (and he scored that own goal too) but the nightmare wasn't over yet... Tudor got the ball between the penalty area and the half line and there were no French players nearby, but still he made a very Gerrard-esque back pass to the goalkeeper... and you probably know what happened then - although Croatian keeper Butina was quick enough to reach the ball first (outside the penalty box so he had to make a sliding tackle), he couldn't kick it past Trezeguet anymore. The ball hit Trezeguet's hand and he had no trouble shooting the ball to the empty goal. So, was that a hand ball? Well, yes, but was it a foul? The new rules are quite confusing, but if you follow the literally, then it probably wasn't a foul. You have to
deliberately play
the ball with your hand. Trezeguet's hand didn't hit the ball in my opinion, in this case the ball hit Trezeguet's arm. There's a little difference, but I think the referee should have disallowed the goal anyway.
Ivica Mornar had a great chance to score just before the final whistle, he got the ball just a couple of yards away from the goal but he still managed to miss.
The best moment of the match was probably Zidane's amazing back flip from Henry's corner - Henry played the corner short to Zidane who was on the edge of the penalty area, Zizou showed some great skill there by making a perfect cross with his backheel to Gallas who should have scored.
Quite a good match but I still would like to see better football.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 23:17 Post subject: |
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It's pretty amazing how discussions about Totti went BEFORE all of this happened in our Juve mailing list, they were in the lines of 'Totti will cost Italy the title...'
I don't think Italy will be much worse without him:
He is overrated and the Italian game will be more...multifacetted without him and unpredicteble. Sometimes you're blessed without knowing it.
Love and Peace
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Man is the only animal clever enough to build The Empire State Building and stupid enough to jump from it. |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3068
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 23:29 Post subject: |
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Well, I won't feel too sorry for Italy if they get knocked out now before the quarter finals. Especially now when Totti did this idiotic thing, he ruined the reputation (that already wasn't very good) of the whole Italy team in my eyes.
Hush Italy! Away with thee!
Three-match ban for Totti... Excellent! Just what he deserved really. He should have been sent off in that match anyway because of the horrendous tackle he did. But no more games in this tournament then. 
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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