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How many dashes of politics with your latte?

 
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 09:39    Post subject: How many dashes of politics with your latte? Reply with quote

Ha ha;
it's almost refreshing to see little talk of events on Capitol Hill or wherever. I take it most posters on the boards are a little depressed? I didn't think I'd really give a fuck when the result came in, but, well, I did. It was like a dark rain-cloud deepening a little and refusing to fuck off. And now Arafat is probably dead we've morons on sites like www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog reading all sorts of divine significance into the events. It's the rise of the messiah.

Did anyone see the state of those pathetically patronising letters sent by Guardian readers to the inhabitants of some Heartland town in Ohio??? If I got one of those I'd vote for Bush in spite. Talk about misguided, surely they knew that for every articulate and sensitive letter-writer they'd get seven budding armchair polemicists stereotyping and lecturing the inhabitants of some place which they believe to have moral and intellectual superiority over of the inhabitants of. A place they don't understand no matter how the much the Guardian and all the other papers would like to paint a simplified picture of it.

In the end with the election and the world. It's too much religion in it all, I says.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 09:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Errr apologies for the grammar. But as I didn't log in I can't change it now. Ah well
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mixedcasesspaces



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely too much religion.
The cause of just about every war there's ever been.
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Andy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 13:26    Post subject: religion's fault? Reply with quote

It's pretty obvious, but probably worth pointing out that these right-wing fundamentalist lunatics aren't really a proper representation of the teachings of Christ. I've never seen people derive so much hate from teachings that stand for love. I don't think the problem comes from religion, per se, but more from people, specifically the ones who don't follow the true message of all the major monotheims (and Set) - love and peace. They just jump on the bandwagon and hijack it for their own personal prejudice.

A hell of a lot of religious people aren't for Bush. There was a great thing on the news last night from an American Presbytarian minister taking apart Bush's policies piece by piece. Did you know that Leviticus, the book that's always cited by the religious right to explain why they're so adamantly opposed to allowing homosexuals constitutional civil rights, also condems eating shellfish in similar language? Check out [url]http://godhatesshrimp.com/ for details.

Anyway, I'm just ranting wildly, please excuse this if it makes little or no sense. I just think that it's not religion that causes all the shit, and that it has been a force for good too - see Dom Helder and others in the church opposing right-wing dicatatorships in South America, Dietrich Bonhoeffer in Nazi germany etc. Also, the emergence of non-conformist religions, especially Methodism, played a huge part in the development of trade unions/socialism in Britain.

We'd better note that religion doesn't cause all the wars either - how about WW1 and WW2, Vietnam, these were political rather than religious driven, surely, even if WW2 did have the whole anti-semtic thing going on? And in societies where religion was pretty much outlawed and robbed of any influence or power (E.g.Stalin's Russia) the same old murdering and killing still goes on by the million. I dunno, I guess it's human beings that are the problem - to blame religion attacks millions of people who are not bigoted. And that's not something we should really be doing.

Ah, that's killed a bit of my lunch hour anyway. Wink


Bill Shankly: Who was the first socialist?
Harold Wilson: Ramsay MacDonald?
Shanks: Jesus christ son, Jesus Christ.

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Setareh Juventina



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 13:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an exaggeration, a lot of wars are about power and money, but religion is used as a tool.

An American friend of my mother said she thinks W got so many votes largely because of the priests in the USA, she said they would tell people things like 'if you vote for John Kerry you will go to hell'...wow.

L&P
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Setareh Juventina



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 13:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I hear about Shankly, the more I love him.

Amour et Paix
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Andy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 13:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, I'm not denying that these people are bloody nutters, just tha they don't represent all religious people, many of whom are totally sound. Anyway, I just found this. Unbelievable. I can't believe people swallow this shit uncritically, or that the Republicans can get away with it.


(Washington) The Republican National Committee has finally admitted that it was responsible for a mass mailing that claimed Democrats would permit gay marriage and ban the Bible.

365Gay.com reported last week that the mailing had a return address of the Republican National Committee, but Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie said last week that he wasn't aware of the mailing, but said it could be the work of the RNC. (story)

Friday, the New York Times reported that in an e-mail message, Christine Iverson, a spokesperson for the RNC, finally confirmed that the party had sent the mailings.

"When the Massachusetts Supreme Court sanctioned same-sex marriage and people in other states realized they could be compelled to recognize those laws, same-sex marriage became an issue,'' Iverson said. "These same activist judges also want to remove the words 'under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance."

The literature shows a Bible with the word "BANNED" across it and a photo of a man, on his knees, placing a ring on the hand of another man with the word "ALLOWED." The mailing tells West Virginians to "vote Republican to protect our families" and defeat the "liberal agenda."

The mailing was aimed at evangelical Protestants, many of whom did not vote in 2000. The RNC hopes it can attract the group to the polls this November.

"At least now the Republican party admits they are running a disgusting
campaign of bigotry for George W. Bush," Eric Stern, Director of GLBT Outreach, DNC told 365Gay.com.

"Instead of running on his failed record, Bush has launched a campaign of distortion in an effort to divide the country at the expense of gay and lesbian Americans"

National Gay and Lesbian Task Force accused the RNC of engaging in fear tactics.

"The president takes more or less the high road and his henchman and allies on the right have been let loose to conduct these ugly, divisive smear campaigns," Foreman told the Times. "It is wedge politics at its worst."

Democratic vice-presidential nominee John Edwards called on the Bush-Cheney campaign to disavow the mailing. In a statement Edwards said that President Bush "should condemn the practice immediately and tell everyone associated with the campaign to never use tactics like this again."

©365Gay.com® 2004
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mixedcasesspaces



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 14:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite right everyone, fair enough. I don't want to get too involved in a subject that other people know a lot more about than me!

My 'Religion causing wars' comment was mostly refering to wars throughout history too, and you're quite right that it's not the teachings of the religion itself that's to blame, but the misuse of peoples beliefs as a tool for a small groups' political or personal gain.

I personally think that religious beliefs should be kept out of politics alltogether ideally.
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