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gillworm



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 529
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:38    Post subject: items you are bidding on... Reply with quote

actually this is abut how for the first time ever I don't want to vote in the General election. previously I've convinced myself that despite my doubts about some of their policies, voting Labour was still the best option. Now the doubts outweigh everything else but I can say too that the other major parties could never have my vote. A journalist suggested spoiling the ballot paper if you feel you can't vote for anyone on it, Mum says vote Green. As a woman, no voting has never seemed like the right option, my vote was too hard-won to consider that.

So what went wrong, how did everything start to go backwards when we reached the 21st Century?

on a more minor note, National Rail will no longer let me use an Oyster card for my annual season ticket - which will slow down every journey and mean that I have a much more unstable ticket - the last one stopped functioning not long after I got it and the replacement was unreadable by me and all ticet machines by the time it expired. The Oyster card was such a great move forward, I can't believe they've changed their computer system to one that isn't compatible. bacwards again!
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mixedcasesspaces



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 574
Location: In the bin, wriggling around with the apple cores

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Oyster. It does seem to not work out as cheaply as I expect it to though.

As for elections, are all the parties really that bad? I think it's unusual this election that Labour and Tory are so similar in their policies - which is basically Labours fault I guess. Lib Dem policies make a lot of sense though (can you guess who I'm voting for?!). Don't waste your vote though - if you really don't want to put your vote to any of the main parties then your Mum's idea of voting Green would at least show that you care about environmental issues.

Mark
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mr firesky (not loggged)
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be voting for sure as we fly away on Friday for our 18 months off so I can vote and leave you all to suffer the consequences HA!

Seriously though I have no idea who will get my X

Don't trust Blair
Don't trust Howard
Ttrust the Lib Dems to a degree but think they'll be rubbish

Any ideas....can we set up our own party..................???
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask why the Lib Dems would never get your vote Gill?

A few reasons why I'll never vote for Labour again:

Abolition of Student Grants
Student Tuition Fees
Top up fees if they get back in (Debt as big as a mortgage by the time you are 21?!?!?!)
Awarding themselves a 50% payrise, then telling us the Firefighters are holding the country hostage, and giving them FOUR percent.
Selling off School playing fields.
My Council Tax going up by 25% in three years, yet seemingly funding fuck all.

A reason why I'll never vote for Conservatives:

The fact that everything they say is stupidly fearmongering and lowest common denominator politics.

Lib Dems:

Well, everything they have said recently makes sense to me. 90% of their policies are that of Old Labour, whom I would have voted for if they had existed by the time I turned 18

Greens:

I may vote for them if they represented Rotherham, which they don't.

That's the biggest joke actually - that I can only vote for parties representing Rotherham. Proprtional representation is another good idea.

AAaaaanyway. That's my two penneth Confused

Kinks
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask a (possibly) controversial question?

What was so wrong about The Poll Tax?

xxx
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mr firesky (not loggged)
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be voting for sure as we fly away on Friday for our 18 months off so I can vote and leave you all to suffer the consequences HA!

Seriously though I have no idea who will get my X

Don't trust Blair
Don't trust Howard
Ttrust the Lib Dems to a degree but think they'll be rubbish

Any ideas....can we set up our own party..................???
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Dubya - T



Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 559
Location: Floatin' down the greasy grass river

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinkster wrote:
Can I ask a (possibly) controversial question?

What was so wrong about The Poll Tax?

xxx


It was a tax that was levied on each individual regardless of their financial status.
So if you earned say, 120 000 per year and I earned 12 000 we'd both pay the same amount, only it would be a much larger chunk of my wages than yours (10 times as much, in effect.) It effectively crippled the low earners but the high earners were laughing, which isn't surprising since it was a Tory policy.

Now the Lib Dems idea is basically a means tested poll tax, which is a fairer system. It is worrying that the Lib Dems have ended up with the nearest to "old Labour" policies.
I also think it's amusing that Blair is trying to scare the Labour voters by saying "if you vote Lib Dem the Tories will get in!" I seem to remember John Major saying the same thing (except that it was Labour who would get in, obviouslv) back in 1997!

It's about time Blair went. He's got more and more corrupt as time has gone on and Iraq/Kelly/WMD's has proved he can't be trusted, but the Tories? The only thing that would be of advantage to me if they got in is that they'd bring back Road Tax exemption for vehicles over 25 years old, but that isn't worth everything else that goes with it.
It's a difficult one.

I think that nobody should waste their vote. If you can't bring yourself top vote for one of the "big 3" then vote Green if you're concerned about the environment or UKIP if you disagree with Europe or something like that that aligns with a principle you have. As the yanks say it's "we the people" and if you don't vote you can't hope to change anything, nor do you have a right to complain about who gets in come to that.
Remember, people change things, not Governments.

I heard a comment recently relating to the postal vote scandal along the lines of "if you want to vote in a fair and democratic election, move to Iraq"
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mixedcasesspaces



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 574
Location: In the bin, wriggling around with the apple cores

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Kinkster.

As for voting Lib Dem - there's no chance of Kennedy as Prime Minister, and I agree that (although he seems like a genuine, nice bloke) he'd not be a very good Prime Minister... as he's not arrogant enough maybe.

But Lib Dems aren't going to win - a vote for them though improves their majority, shows support of their policies and, most importantly (in my opinion) moves them closer to being real contenders in the next election.

Mark
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubya - T wrote:
Kinkster wrote:
Can I ask a (possibly) controversial question?

What was so wrong about The Poll Tax?

xxx


It was a tax that was levied on each individual regardless of their financial status.


Thanks for that Dubya. I always believed this to be the case. However, around six months ago, I was told by somebody that this was untrue. It just so happened to be a Tory supporter that told me this, but I have to admit that I had little choice but to believe what he was saying, as around 1987 I was 10 to his 40 Wink

I'll be having words with him tonight, as he was trying to tell me the Lib Dems "Local Income Tax" was basically the same policy.


Kinks
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 13:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Whereas in the United States, conservative economists tend to hail proportionate taxation (especially on incomes) as ideal and "neutral" to the market, the Thatcherites have apparently understood the fallacy of this position. On the market, people do not pay for goods and services in proportion to their incomes. David Rockefeller does not have to pay $1000 for a loaf of bread for which [p. 218] the rest of us pay $1.50. On the contrary, on the market there is a strong tendency for a good to be priced the same throughout the market; one good, one price. It would be far more neutral to the market, indeed, for everyone to pay, not the same tax in proportion to his income, but the same tax as everyone else, period. Everyone's tax should therefore be equal. Furthermore, since democracy is based on the concept of one man or woman, one vote, it would seem no more than fitting to have a principle of one man, one tax. Equal voting, equal taxation. "
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 13:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's a bunch o' right wing hooey right there.

i earned a lot of money for about two years in the nineties and i paid alot of tax and i was glad to do it.

people shouldn't be punished for earning big money but they should pay a little more tax. it's where it goes that worries me.

mx
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3066
Location: here, there, and everywhere

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 13:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gill, I thought this is a thread about that handbag you saw on eBay... Wink

um... KENFROM RHYL for Prime Minister!
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Last edited by Tommy BOO on Wed May 04, 2005 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 13:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

bravecaptain wrote:
that's a bunch o' right wing hooey right there.


Innit. It's actually taken from an book called "Making Economic Sense"

The sense it makes to me is that 75% of people would become much much worse off, so the single tax threshold would have to be lowered, and at that point the economy and any kind of public spending would be completely fucked.

pfff
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Dubya - T



Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 559
Location: Floatin' down the greasy grass river

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 15:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinkster wrote:
bravecaptain wrote:
that's a bunch o' right wing hooey right there.


Innit. It's actually taken from an book called "Making Economic Sense"

The sense it makes to me is that 75% of people would become much much worse off, so the single tax threshold would have to be lowered, and at that point the economy and any kind of public spending would be completely fucked.

pfff


Ah yes,
What was that called again....


The 80's
Twisted Evil
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 18:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was going to vote lib dem, but i read some stuff that said that under them poor people would be worse off, which didn't seem too good. not sure quite where this comes from, as generally their policies seem pretty sensible. i suppose as the supposed middle party, they must have some right wing policies. maybe i need to do more investigation...

i am lucky enough to have green and respect candidates as well, so it should be possible to vote for someone whose policies i believe in.

this has got to be the worst election ever:
"vote for us or the tories will get in"
"vote for us or get another 5 years of blair"
hmm, how inspiring...
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