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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 17:24    Post subject: I don't know if bravecaptain was the Reply with quote

first, but this Irish television show
http://www.rte.ie/tv/othervoices/archive.html
claims:
Long before Radiohead, London-based indie stars The Crimea were the first band anywhere to give an album away for free as a download.

the album came out in 2007. So, obviously, that claim is bogus. Does anyone know who was the first, though? can you say with any certainty? does the band have to be signed for it to count? does anyone care?

Rolling Eyes
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 17:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. Super Furry Animals are on this week's show, you'll be able to watch it on there afterwards - for those not in Ireland, and interested.

It's about time they had someone good on it again.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 19:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Charlatans are giving their new album away for free, all the kids are doing it now:
http://www.xfm.co.uk/news/2008/download-charlatans-new-album-for-free


...and Annie Giant Drag wants donations to fund her new album after being dropped by Interscope:
http://www.giantdrag.com/

The FA Cup has gone mad and I like it.

The video on the telly right now is ace but I have no idea what the song is...dum de dum...apparently it's MGMT. So now we know.
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Bev



Joined: 25 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 21:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's rubbish about Giant Drag, dropped after 1 album - didn't it sell well then? Fortunately I bought a copy of it so don't feel personally guilty...
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Hew



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 21:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have to say that the new charlatans album is pretty good. fair play to them.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 22:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bev wrote:
That's rubbish about Giant Drag, dropped after 1 album - didn't it sell well then? Fortunately I bought a copy of it so don't feel personally guilty...


Someone asked her how she pays her rent now she's been dropped and this is her massively detailed answer:

"i don't mind answering this question, i think people who are rich are the ones who might say its none of your business (because being poor is equivalent to keeping it real?) but i like to inform people about how the music business works for realsies because many people assume i've made a lot of money, either because they've seen the nip/tuck commercial (which we all know i didn't get paid for) or because they've seen me in a lot of magazines and they think you get paid to be in magazines. basically the magazine is doing you a favor by putting you in it. unfortunately one of the most common ways an album gets leaked to the internet before it is released is by music journalists because they get their promo copies about 3 months before the release date, so they review it and, like assholes, leak it. and theres nothing you can do about it except not send it out to be reviewed which only hurts yourself. some major labels put watermarks on the promo cd's (which is expensive to do) so they can find out exactly who leaked it but even then theres nothing they can do beyond yelling at that person or public humiliation so its basically a waste of money, money that they spend but is billed back to you ( aka recoupable) that you back back through record sales (99% of bands never recoup because the label is constantly spending money on your touring, advertising, recording, etc.). i think they should fine them money since what they're doing is no different than stealing a crate of cd's off a truck and passing them out to people, assuming the people who download the album don't go out and buy it once it comes out, which obviously most people don't according to the steady decline of record sales since illegal downloading started.

but anyway, back to how i pay my rent. at the beginning of each album cycle (after the label decides you're going to do another album with them) you get a budget for the album that includes specific amounts for recording of the album, tour support, advertising and living expenses. this money is based on how well your last album did and how well they expect this album to do. since my first album sold under 20,000 copies and pretty much nobody sells a lot of albums these days i didn't get a very big budget for anything. my living expense amount was $30,000 which sounds like a lot but you have to factor in my managers taking 15%, lawyer getting 5%, business manager taking i don't even know how much and many outstanding bills for things like the giant drag american express card (used to pay for hotels on tour and really everything else that counts as a tax write-off in my personal life. btw, tax write-off does NOT mean you get that money back, i don't know why some people think that) oh and all the money that i get has NO taxes taken out, i think i owed over $7,000 in taxes this year. i have to pay taxes for money that i didn't even get. so once everyone took their cut and taxes were paid and money for next years taxes were set aside i had a much smaller amount, i can't remember the exact number, i wanna say 11 grand though. my rent is $900 a month and with utilities, gas, food and whatever else that money was gone pretty quick.

most bands get a shitload of money when they get dropped from a major label but since i had such a crappy manager and lawyer at the time i got the worst record deal ever that says i do not get hundreds of thousands (literally, thats what most bands get) of dollars. however interscope is going to throw me a bone and give me the leftovers of the recording budget (which as i said was not large to begin with) but since they halted production the day before we were supposed to go into the studio more than half the budget was spent on studio cancellation fees, pre-production costs and paying $10,000 to a producer that was very instrumental in the record's production being halted and me getting dropped. incase you haven't noticed, this is pretty outrageous. one of the musicians the producer hired sent in his bill for 7 days of pre-production and a $6,000 cancellation fee which when added up was $500 more than what he would have gotten had he actually played on the record. the label should have paid for all this themselves since they were the ones who cancelled everything but they didn't and i had to decide if i wanted to drag this out for an eternity and sue them (and most likely lose) or sign off on paying all these people and get off the label so i can move forward. just so you know, these are not ordinary circumstances by any means but they never are with giant drag. things always seem to go freakishly wrong or just weird and stupid.

besides that i make like $2,000 every quarter (there are 4 quarters in a year) when i get publishing checks (for songs being played on the radio and stuff), i make money if i book my own shows in LA and i make money if i ever get a song licensed to tv or movies (unless its wicked game or slayer, i guess, that still seems like its not right that i didn't get a performance fee or something for that nip/tuck commercial!) all three of which do not happen very often. i used to bring home money from tour by saving my per diems (the 20 bucks you get every day you're on tour for food and what not) by eating backstage food (chips and salsa, fruit, the headlining band's sandwiches) and when at diners ordering the cheapest food possible. besides that we never made money off touring because the cost of van rental, hotels, tour manager, etc. was way more than we get paid for the shows, so we actually lost money.

so now you know how i have paid rent thus far. before i was on a record label i lived in a closet for $150 a month and then on a couch for free in exchange for buying jonah ray groceries and cooking for him so i could do the band full-time and supported myself by djing at bars for cash. i will most likely be moving in with my dad next month which kind of bums me out but i need to adjust my standard of living since i no longer have financial stability, if you could ever have called it that in the first place.
by the way, my mom is an executive assistant (aka secretary) and my dad works at Chevron in Laguna Niguel (at the actual gas station behind the counter selling gas and candy, not at the corporate offices or whatever) so no, i definitely do not come from a rich family.

i'm pretty much an open book, perhaps too open. remember this next time you ask me a simple question as my answers are usually long-winded and overly-detailed."
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
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Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 15:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like a giant drag to be a musician...

Rolling Eyes
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Bev



Joined: 25 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 20:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

John MC thanks for posting that, it was an interesting albeit rather a depressing read (I love the fact that 'albeit' is one word). I hope she gets more luck in the future, as I thought the 1st album was pretty good - and they had potential....
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
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Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 20:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wandered in, and quickly out of a poorly attended Giant Drag performance in one of the tents at Oxegen a couple of years ago as I looked for somewhere good to sit down and eat. It's all my fault.
Crying or Very sad

oh, and sorry for misleading information in my 2nd post - you can't view that show online if you're outside of Ireland. SFA played Earth on it... what a tune. All seven seconds of it.
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CranesAreFlying



Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 247
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 06:25    Post subject: pretty much ... Reply with quote

it's an awful business. good thing the music industry is committing mass suicide by not adapting to the 'digital age' and insisting on not providing its consumers with what they want.

an oldie but goodie article courtesy of Steve Albini:
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

"Welcome to the Machine"
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Last edited by CranesAreFlying on Mon Mar 17, 2008 06:45; edited 1 time in total
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 06:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

what do consumers want?
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CranesAreFlying



Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 06:50    Post subject: consumers, well... Reply with quote

I can only say I guess that a product would have to be within the realm of a consumer's experience. That being, digital, formless, interactive, perhaps not even a "record" at all.

I can only say for certain what I'd like. I'd like a subscription service to my few favorite bands!
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CranesAreFlying



Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 08:01    Post subject: Actually, I think you're way ahead of the curve on this. Reply with quote

Problem being, where's the curve?

The idea of "the Consumer" itself is outdated. Outside of inane pop music (or random gems like OutKast's Hey Ya) I don't think there's a viable business plan for mainstream music at all. It's simply not how people are connecting with media anymore. But there is vast potential for thousands of good groups to succeed in terms of capitalizing on their core or niche appeal.

Social networking could become a core component of this. Say for example, I pay $10 USD per month to band Z. Z makes $120 USD (exchange rates aside!) every year off of me alone. In exchange, I've got a user page, a blog, interaction with other serious fans, access to exclusive content, streaming demos, band video blogs, maybe even a fan event every now and then.

Z could also develop cliques or groups of bands that support each other and share benefits and fan bases. The beauty of it is that it can all be web-based, which destroys geographical restrictions and real-life social boundaries.

Now where are the Consumers at at this point? I'm not sure they are there yet. But they have definitely rejected the previous model.

But Yeah, on a more basic level, they want music for free. I see what you're driving at.
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent answer la x
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discoRdance



Joined: 20 May 2003
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Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 16:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never cared so much for music I got for free. Am I in a minority? Radiohead used to be my favourite band, but, despite having a ticket to see them in July, I've only managed to listen to In Rainbows once.
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